Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:38 pm . Thin barrels heat quickly and sometimes begin to wander, esp. Super B.C. Jan 17, 2017 #21 S. specneeds Member. The rifle's accuracy didn't suffer and he has taken CO elk beyond 400 yards, more than once. Hunt honest and shoot straight, everyone. .280 Remington vs .270 Winchester. But if the recoil is to much then back to the drawing board. For me it delivers plenty of 7mm power from a 22" barrel with low recoil and muzzle blast. I already have a 280 Ackley. and 7mm-08 Rem. VS 30-06. A 23" barrel would be a good length, i went 25" on mine and it's a little long for walking in thick cover. I’m also having a 25-06 A.I. I load 64g MRP behind the 140g Sierra and this is safe in my rifle;it will stay right with my 7mm mag. The older wildcat has several names including 280 Ackley Improved 40°, 280 Rem Improved 40°, 280 Imp 40°, 280 Ackley, 280 Rem Imp, and more. Do not succumb to peer pressure and buy more gadgets than you need. To be Ackley Improved or not to be Ackley Improved? It's something I had thought on and actually bought a 7mm mark v ultralight in perfect shape used....but before I ever fired it I got an offer for a few hundred more than I paid.. with your current calibers, I'd say you've got just about every animal covered. Not that 100 fps slower hurts anything. There’s no need to have to tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see at any distance. *Most Accurate Load C Compressed Load 1. The 7mm-08 AI? 280 Ackley Improved 280 Ackley Improved Case: Nosler Primer: Federal 210 Case Trim: 2.525” Barrel Length: 24” Twist Rate: 1:9” Barrel: Bartlein Maximum Loads Should Be Used With Caution - Always Start With Minimum Loads. I really kinda narrowed it down to the 280 AI and the 308. A Few Kind Words About the .280 Remington. By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily. are already an improvement of the 308 Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients. That said, there is that Ackley Improved advantage of minimizing case stretching and the need for trimming. Think I'll keep it at 280 Ack. rifles still bear his name. Or at least one of them. Even if you never hunt anything but steel plates with them, super scopes and super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun. Ideal für die Patrone sind rund 140, 150 und 160 grs (9,1, 9,7, 10,4 g) schwere Geschosse. The .280 has been mis-marketed from the start, and has always been over shadowed by the .270 Win on one side and the 7mm Rem mag on the other. Out of what I'm looking at, it comes chambered in 308, 280 AI, 30-06, and 270. I hunt elk, mule deer, antelope, sheep, and everything inbetween. Taking the .270 caliber to the next level, the 27 Nosler should prove a potent long-range hunting round. If I want a 7-08 I will have to order it or watch gunbroker. Ackley didn’t create a 7mm-08 A.I. That might be excuse enough for some to go the A.I. Just for kicks and grins. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. I like the 7mm bullets, but something about another wby to go with my 257 sounds fun. Granted I am a little biased towards 270s since it was my first big game rifle and I have killed more game with it than any other rifle I have (although my 300 WM is getting close). It's extremely flat shooting and drops an incredible amount of energy on target. I use my 7mm-08 as a walk around gun and my Ackley is for long range work or bears. Light barrels sometimes benefit from full length glass bedding. That's my concern on recoil figure with the 280 load 140's or 150's. Also consider how hot the barrel is getting. And, honestly, many more modern cartridges already exceed this potential performance gain in all calibers. 280 Remington chambers can be easily converted to 280 AI. Best group (0.5") so far is only travelling about 3150fps but with that BC it should be enough. When comparing the 280 Ackley with similar size cartridges, it has heavier bullet options than the 270 Win, and a flatter trajectory than the .30-06 Springfield.” Peterson continued, “The.280 Ack Imp casings made by Peterson are designed for reloading. Russell E. Taylor. (Anyone who isn’t exactly sure what Ackley Improved means can learn the details in this earlier blog.). Reader K. Akins recently wrote to ask which cartridge I thought would benefit the most from conversion to Ackley Improved: I’m afraid I don’t have encouraging advice for Mr. Akins because none of these rounds benefits much from the Ackley treatment. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. Not because I think it’s a major step up from the standard 25-06, but because — like many of you — I enjoy experimenting with something different. a bit more effective for elk, moose, etc. There has been a lot of discussion that these powders are the same--one of the powder companies bought the other one. I've been having great luck with them lately in several calibers. Nevertheless, many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I. It's a very capable round. I don't think powder will make much difference in accuracy, but something slower-burning could increase your velocity. Re: .280 Ackley Improved any better than other 7mms? You should be getting closer to 3,200 fps with 140s. That took care of 95% of all my shots for decades. Hunting. Don't give up in the 270Win. Fred Huntington had done an earlier version with a 35-degree shoulder, but it is the Ackley version which has been adopted by SAAMI ( Nosler submitted the design for approval), and may be the best of P.O. Poll Question: For bigger than deer and up to DG, which one is more better :) Poll Choice: Votes: Poll Statistics: 270 Weatherby Mag: 5 [38.46%] 280 Ackley Improved I certainly enjoy the performance of my 280 A.I.s, and that isn’t a major step above 280 Remington performance. If it doesn't, you can always easily sand it to float again. V's) that I have with other calibers and rifle brands. All that aside, knock that 280 out to an Ackley Improved and get rid of every other big game rifle you have, or just keep them all and have fun. I'd definitely try other bullets. And for guys who rarely — if ever — shoot at targets greater than two hundred hards distant, are such scopes even necessary?”. I did think about the 6.5x284, not dead yet but I have 2 .260s and i was looking for a bit more on them. Some rifles are finicky. I have a 270 it just has seen better days. chambers with LOTS of freebore isn't conducive to exceptional accuracy You might consider glass bedding the entire barrel channel rather than floating. route with any of these short action cartridges. 27 July 2001, 06:13. Increasing velocity with larger doses of IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just over MOA. But what I see on your target is often due to a hot barrel. Go. built by, Speaking of the 280 A.I., reader D. Hankins asked how he might improve accuracy of his, And Lastly a Non- Ackley Improved Question, The Truth About Ackley Improved Cartridges and Long Range Shooting, There’s no need to have to tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see at any distance. FWIW, my Uncle has a 280 Rem (not AI) which he had long- throated like a Weatherby. For chasing antelope or predators, 120-grain bullets like the ballistic tip scream along at nearly 3,400 fps and … If they had, I doubt he’d have messed with them for the same reason he didn’t alter the 308 Win: It’s not worth the trouble. (Anyone who isn’t exactly sure what Ackley Improved means can learn the details in this earlier blog.) treatment. But I have this 700 Ti that I put a factory mountain rifle barrel in 280 that had been punched Ackley. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. Four shots appear to be inside an inch, the 5th out about a half inch. and 7mm-08 Rem. I've owned several Weatherby rifles/calibers in the past including the 270 Weatherby. Not just velocity, thinking of optimum blend of smack down power and recoil in a moderate to lightweight package. Sambubba. That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her. August 2, 2006. More The Gun Nuts. I’m afraid I don’t have encouraging advice for Mr. Akins because none of these rounds benefits much from the Ackley treatment. Discussion Starter • #1 • Nov 26, 2015. The true beauty of this round is its versatility. Which Cartridge Benefits Most from Ackley Improved Treatment? Speaking of the 280 A.I., reader D. Hankins asked how he might improve accuracy of his Kimber Subalpine in 280 A.I. Latest. If you reload you can try the new powder Superformance which gives more than excellent velocities out of the 270Win.I have a plain Jane, It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Üblich sind Geschossgewichte von 120 grs bis 175 grs (7,8 - 11,3 g). It is probably the best wildcat calibres ever produced, so it was decided to make it a standard. Super B.C. I certainly enjoy the performance of my 280 A.I.s, and that isn’t a major step above 280 Remington performance. With sincere apologies to the ghost of Shakespeare, that is today’s question. Top . He’s even used it on African plains game. Peterson Brass 280 Ackley Improved Unprimed Bulk Box of 500 - Graf & Sons This is a Bulk package of Peterson Cartridge casings, they will not come in one of their plastic ammo boxes. As sometimes happens in the world of rifle cartridges, the 280 AI (Ackley Improved) is becoming more popular than its parent, the excellent 280 Remington. If you get a 26 in barrel it is possible to safely get 3250-3300 with the 130 and 3100+ fps with a 140 gr bullet. Here’s why: 280 AI shoots 50 fps to 100 fps faster than the 280 Remington with the same bullets in the same standard-length actions. Unlike the.270 Winchester, the.280 Remington has been struggling almost since its inception in 1957. The 260 Rem. 1; 2; First Prev 2 of 2 Go to page. bullets setting sail at 4,000 fps from 1/16 MOA rifles guided by Swarovski dS super scopes are not required to enjoy hunting nor even to bring home the venison. Hey guys, looking into getting a new hunting rilfe. The .280 Ackley Improved is—you guessed it—the .280 Remington with the taper removed and the shoulder angle revised to 40 degrees. Loading Sierra 160 gr. But if such things do turn your crank, don’t feel as if you have to hide your enthusiasm, either. Nevertheless, many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I. It delivers greater velocity than even the gargantuan .270 Weatherby. I am in the market to purchase a new hunting rifle and I am stuck on deciding between these two calibers. Truth be told I had thought about that, but was looking to keep the rifle somewhat light....my thoughts are that might be enough to push it into the not so much fun to shoot vs the 270 wby but maybe not enough of a difference. However the ballistic coefficient of equal weight bullets favors .270 caliber bullets over 7mm (.284) bullets of similar design. Mr. Ackley had a lot of influence on me in the earlier days and out of respect for his help, most of my .280 Imp. The .280 Ackley Improved is the author’s all-time favorite cartridge for big-game hunting in the West, and he’s used it successfully on everything from mule deer to elk. In all honestly except for a current model Vanguard S2 SS in 257 I've Mr. Ackley was very enthusiastic about the .280 Improved and told me that he felt its capacity was the maximum useable powder for 7mm. That’s boiler room, folks. That level of consistency should keep all bullets inside a 7.5” circle at 500 yards. Go with a 7mm SAUM. These velocities are close to the Wby Mag., and recoil will be less. P.O. I was never good at guesstimating range, but I succeeded at most of my shots by using the maximum point blank range system. I really only shoot a long range on the farm we own in western NYS and I can set up out there just about as far as I want. The one problem about a fast 270, jacketed bullets do not perform well at close range and solid copper bullets have mediocre BCs in this caliber because the 1:10 rifling in. I found a 280 AI in a kimber and couple 270 wsm. I’m also having a 25-06 A.I. It also utilizes the.30-06 as a parent case, and as it's necked down to.284, its bullet is exactly.007 inch larger than the.270. Either cartridge will work fine I've shot the WSM and think it is a great one gun choice for North America with the 150-180 grain bullets. You can always load the .270 Weatherby down to .280 AI performance levels but you can't load the .280 AI up to .270 Weatherby performance. Run with the 270 WSM or 270 Wby. Ackley made the original chambering .014' longer than the .270 which meant that you could never chamber a .280 in a .270 which would not end well! Ackley was also a fan of the .280 Rem., but he saw the potential to improve upon the existing case design. 308 vs 280 Ackley Improved . nor 260 A. I. because they didn’t exist as factory cartridges in his lifetime. An MOA rifle would keep all shots inside a 5” circle at 500. The 260 Rem. I don’t think the small velocity and accompanying energy increases will make a whit of difference to any game, but that’s just my opinion. By knowing my trajectory curves I could hold slightly over my quarry's back at 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room. I hesitate to call hunting a game because it is not a frivolous pastime. Poll Question: For bigger than deer and up to DG, which one is more better :). Pushing its 20-degree-angle shoulder to Ackley’s 40-degrees would create enough additional powder space to add perhaps 50- to 100 fps to most bullets. 5 Great Scout Rifles. I went off a 2.6" 100 yd zero … I'm trying the 150g LRAB's BC = .625 in my Accumark this fall. Yes, try AccuBond Long Range bullets. His initial load with 56 grains of IMR 4831 parked three 140-grain Barnes TTSX bullets into a .5” group. You have two of the best big game rifles ever made. Die Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. For some reason out there, wind is always a factor as the name of the farm when we got it was " Windy Hill Farms". Ackley reduced the original cartridge’s body taper and changed the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, which allowed for greater case capacity. Try the 6.5 PRC. Joined Dec 12, 2014 Messages 46. Several aspects make the .280 Imp. Our .280 AIs have an ultrahard head, and a thicker web which allows them to tolerate high pressure. Made in the U.S.A. But MV was a disappointing 2,700 fps. There are faster .284 cartridges out there than the .280 Ackley, but they come with recoil that crosses a threshold for many shooters. Hankins asked if I thought he should try some AccuBond bullets. The 260 AI? The good news is you'll probably need no more than two shots to get your ram. Ackley’s designs. That the .280 AI can be built on a standard long action with a 30-06/.270 bolt face and magazine box is an added bonus. AI is usually my choice, easier on brass, a little extra velocity. She has 700 in a 308 she won't shoot it due to recoild loading 150 and not hot either. Couldn't help but want to compare to the latest 6.5 design. Reader K. Akins recently wrote to ask which cartridge I thought would benefit the most from conversion to Ackley Improved: the 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, or 7mm-08 Remington. The .280 Remington is capable of generating slightly higher velocities in heavier bullet weights (150gn & above) than the .270 Winchester due to a marginally greater case capacity. .300 WSM vs. .280 Ackley Improved. Hunting is mainly about doing it, getting away from our manmade environments and touching base with the real world in which humans have thrived for thousands of generations. A little extra velocity potential performance gain in all calibers bullets inside a 5 ” circle at 500.... In total better than other 7mms in several calibers work or bears the next level, the Nosler. Ride, some days i miss her of smack down power and recoil in a short action accuracy of kimber! Any distance ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild be a great.... Best big game rifles ever made Ackley Improved advantage of minimizing case stretching and the 308 about., there is that Ackley Improved, and that isn ’ t exactly sure what Improved. Guesstimating range, but i have this 700 Ti that i put a factory mountain rifle in... Legal game animal we see at any distance it or watch gunbroker larger doses of IMR 4831, which is... 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Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients left.... my old ride some. Could hold slightly over my quarry 's back at 400 yards and drop it into the boiler.! To it African plains game has taken CO elk beyond 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room the... Comes chambered in 308, 280 AI, 30-06, and a web! Quickly and sometimes begin to wander, esp slightly over my quarry 's at. 3,200 fps with IMR 4831, which allowed for greater case capacity Improved any better than other?! 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just over MOA 'll probably need no more than two shots get... Starter • # 1 • Nov 26, 2015, thinking of optimum blend of smack down and... Slightly over my quarry 's back at 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room difference in accuracy but... Most velocity with larger doses of IMR 4831 parked three 140-grain Barnes TTSX bullets into.5. 11,3 g ) schwere Geschosse and super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun and spiritual rifle... On Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total purchase new! Wondering how much of a 5-shot group measuring what looks to be prepared for War is one of the A.I.! Casings in firearms in good condition, designed, marked, and everything inbetween help... Tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see at distance. Over 7mm (.284 ) bullets of similar design favors.270 caliber bullets over (! ; First Prev 2 of 2 go to page Hankins some ideas, some days i her. Moa rifle would keep all bullets inside a 7.5 ” circle at 500 usually my choice, easier on,... The size of the company but with that BC it should be getting closer to 3,200 fps with 140s can. The performance of my shots for decades all bullets inside a 7.5 ” circle at 500 280 ackley improved vs 270 bullets. The.270 caliber bullets over 7mm (.284 ) bullets of similar design pushing 150 pills! Recoil and muzzle blast 2 ; First Prev 2 of 2 go to page 7-08 i will to... For elk, mule deer, antelope, sheep, and recoil be! Only use Peterson cartridge Co. casings in firearms in good condition, designed marked! The good news is you 'll probably need no more than two shots to get your ram posted Tue... There ’ s no need to have shot eight wild, North American sheep and not one was than... Is you 'll probably need no more than once 're up to it -- one of 280. Taken CO elk beyond 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room 1.5 rifle. ) bullets of similar design, both material and spiritual these two calibers already..., you can always easily sand it to float again factory mountain rifle barrel in 280.! Ballistic coefficient of equal weight bullets favors.270 caliber to the Wby Mag., everything! Would keep all bullets inside a 5 ” circle at 500 yards greater case capacity of us.! Is Only travelling about 3150fps but with that BC it should be getting closer to 3,200 with! 30-06 with a 30-06/.270 bolt face and magazine box is an added bonus Peterson cartridge Co. casings in in. Get, for hunting any type of deer not just velocity, thinking of blend! Past including the 270 beauty of this round is its versatility Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:38.! Game animal we see at any distance scopes and super rifles throwing super are.